Full transcript of “Face the Nation” on Dec. 25, 2022

December 26, 2022

On this “Face the Nation” broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:

  • Rep. Jamie Raskin, Democrat of Maryland
  • CBS Information correspondents roundtable that includes Jan Crawford, David Martin, Nancy Cordes, Catherine Herridge and Jeff Pegues

Click on right here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”  


MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And at the moment on Face the Nation: As Individuals pause to mirror this Christmas and Hanukkah Sunday, we’ll too.

What occurred in 2022 isn’t prone to keep in 2022, as the largest tales from the previous 12 months are poised to be entrance and middle in 2023. We’ll look to the brand new 12 months in our annual correspondents roundtable, a 72-years CBS Information custom.

Our Washington beat reporters will weigh in on what’s forward, with the information, the insurance policies and the politics they’re anticipating within the 12 months forward.

Plus, what classes have been discovered from the January 6 Capitol assault investigation, and what affect will they’ve in 2023 and past? We’ll speak with one of many high Home committee investigators, Maryland Democrat Jamie Raskin.

It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. We want you a merry Christmas and comfortable Hanukkah. Thanks for becoming a member of us this vacation Sunday.

The clock continues to be ticking on the ultimate days of 2022, however there’s lots that is going to hold over to 2023. At the moment, we would like to try a few of these tales.

We’re joined now by Maryland Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, a member of the committee investigating the January 6 assault.

Good morning to you.

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN (D-Maryland): Hi there, Margaret. Happy to be with you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is an unimaginable physique of labor, all coming to this conclusion now. What do you suppose Individuals at house must know?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: It is a story of some actual villainy and a few actual hazard to democracy, but in addition of actual heroism and dedication to American democratic freedom.

And with democracy below assault everywhere in the world, like with Putin invading Ukraine and the Ukrainian folks standing up for his or her democratic freedom, and tyrants and autocrats on the march all over the place, it is good to know that we’ve a powerful, resurgent democratic spirit in America.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The establishments held.

However, on the conclusion of this, since you’ve spent nearly two years investigating, what occurs subsequent for you? Are there items of this that, within the new Congress, even below Republican management, should be additional investigated or by some means legislated round?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: Properly, once you say the establishments held, they did maintain simply barely.

The reality is that we have to regularly be renovating and enhancing our establishments.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How so? What do you imply?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: Properly, I believe that the Electoral School now, which has given us 5 fashionable vote losers as president in our historical past, twice on this century alone, has turn into a hazard, not simply to democracy, however to the American folks.

It was a hazard on January 6. There are such a lot of curving byways and nooks and crannies within the Electoral School, that there are alternatives for lots of strategic mischief. We should always elect the president the way in which we elect governors, senators, mayors, representatives, everyone else: Whoever will get essentially the most votes wins.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you do not suppose that this reforming of the Electoral Depend Act, which is basically simply making clear that the vice chairman’s function is simply ceremonial with the electors, you do not suppose that solves the problem?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: It does not clear up the basic downside. I am for that, and that is the very least we are able to do and we should do. It’s a necessity, nevertheless it’s not remotely enough.

You realize, we spend a whole lot of hundreds of thousands of {dollars} yearly exporting American democracy to different nations, and the one factor they by no means come again to us with is the concept: Oh, that Electoral School that you’ve got, that is so nice. We expect we’ll undertake that too.

You realize, Thomas Jefferson stated that he deplored the sanctimonious reverence with which some folks have a look at the unique handiwork of the framers, when they need to be seeking to their very own expertise. He stated, the framers have been nice and so they have been patriots, however they did not take pleasure in the expertise that we have lived.

And we all know that the Electoral School does not match anymore, which is why I am an enormous supporter of the Nationwide Fashionable Vote Interstate Compact, the place it is effervescent up from beneath, however there at the moment are 15 or 16 states and the District of Columbia who’ve stated, we’ll solid our electors for the winner of the nationwide vote as soon as we get 270 electors in our coalition.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let’s get again to the work that you’ve got simply concluded, since you did make this historic resolution to confer with the Justice Division for potential prosecution a former president of the USA.

It is by no means been completed earlier than. However, in doing so, it does not have the requirement that the Justice Division act. Why did you suppose making that referral was obligatory? Why not simply let your work stand by itself with the general public hearings?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: Properly, due to the magnitude of the assault on democracy.

You realize, we do not have a proper statutory offense known as crimes towards democracy, however that is what every little thing was collectively. After which there have been a whole lot of precise statutory offenses below that. And we recognized 4.

There was a deliberate try by Donald Trump to intrude and hinder and impede a federal continuing. That was the entire plan, cease the steal, that means go in there and blockade the Home and the Senate and the vice chairman from doing their job. It was an try and defraud the USA.

There was a conspiracy to defraud the USA to alternate an sincere to goodness presidential election for a counterfeit election, full with faux electors, and forcible violence getting used to overthrow the method.

It concerned the introduction of false statements, these faux electors that have been put in. And, lastly, there was aiding and abetting an rebel, giving support and luxury to insurrectionists. That is an outdated crime in America.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: Our Structure repeatedly opposes rebel and condemns it. And, in fact, we thought we had solved that downside within the Civil Battle.

However that statute that we referred to there was handed after the Civil Battle to make it possible for individuals who incite rebel and support and abet it and provides support and luxury to the insurrectionists by saying issues like, I like you, you are very particular, that these individuals are responsible of an offense towards the USA, even in case you’re president once you do it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However do not you concern, in some methods, as a result of this referral you are making does not have the load of prosecution behind it — that needs to be as much as the Justice Division to resolve to maneuver ahead.

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: And that is factor too.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However do you concern that, as a result of it’s a political physique making this suggestion, that it makes it simpler for folks to brush away a few of what you simply laid out, that it makes it simpler to characterize it or dismiss it as political in nature?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: Look, in a democracy, the folks have the proper to the reality.

And so our bipartisan panel, with overwhelmingly Republican witnesses coming to testify, has laid out the reality, the most effective that we might discover it. It is not been contradicted or undermined in any means that I am conscious of.

And we’re turning it over to the folks and we’re turning it over to the Division of Justice. And, at that time, your level is right. It is as much as them. And it ought to function like that. Congress does not prosecute, however, like everyone else, if we’re conscious of offenses, we have got to show that proof over to people who find themselves prosecutors.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And also you’re in that course of now of sharing with the Justice Division a few of what you discovered.

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: The Division of Justice has a far vaster panoply of investigative assets obtainable to them than we do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And the next benchmark they’ve to satisfy to really transfer forward and prosecute.

So, you recognize, one of many issues I’ve heard folks typically parse the language, coup, tried coup. And the — these skeptics that you just referred to earlier would argue that, to substantiate a coup, you’d want to really show that the president was cooking up this plan, directing folks to do issues, and that he had the assist of the army in there, whereas a few of what has been laid out, it is sort of this unwieldy, muddy plan.

How do you truly assert that it was nearly democracy that was misplaced at that second?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: Properly, in our report, we lay out each aspect of the plan, together with going to the legislatures to attempt to get them to nullify the favored vote and go new statutes that may simply appoint Trump’s electors. That failed.

We lay out his plan of going to election officers like Raffensperger in Georgia, however he wasn’t the one one — there have been greater than a dozen instances like that — and attempting to get them simply to concoct votes: “Simply discover me 11,780 votes.”

That wasn’t Donald Trump attempting to cease election fraud. That was Donald Trump attempting to commit election fraud and a conspiracy to perpetrate it proper there. So, we lay it out. It is not muddy in any respect. It’s totally clear.

That is actually concerning the future, as a result of the political scientists and historians inform us that the most effective signal of a profitable coup coming is a just lately failed coup, the place the coup plotters get to diagram the weaknesses within the current construction. They usually’re emboldened if they are not held accountable for what they did.

I do know Mike Pence stated that it will be divisive for the federal government to prosecute the case. That is not the take a look at for whether or not or not prosecutors prosecute a case. The take a look at is whether or not there was against the law dedicated. It is the information and the regulation. I imply, you could possibly simply as nicely say will probably be divisive to not maintain a president accountable who’s responsible for offenses.

However, in any occasion, it is not a part of the calculus.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to comply with up on what you’ve got simply stated, which is kind of a gown rehearsal for a coup.

Congress is placing hundreds of thousands of {dollars} in direction of bolstering safety for members of the Home, for members of the Senate when they’re house, and for individuals who have been concerned within the prosecution of those that carried out January 6.

Are you scared of your personal safety? I imply, what does it say about the place we at the moment are, this far after January 6?

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: There’s very harmful rhetoric happening on the market that is an actual break from every little thing we have identified in our lifetimes.

What it means to dwell in a democracy with fundamental civic respect is that folks can disagree with out resorting to violence. However the Web has performed a unfavorable function, particularly for the proper wing, the acute proper, which now engages in very harmful, hyperbolic rhetoric that exposes folks to hazard.

However democracy additionally requires braveness. I am so impressed by the elected officers across the nation who’ve stood up towards all the threats and all the intimidation. And people folks do not get sufficient credit score.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We agree.

Congressman, thanks to your time.

REPRESENTATIVE JAMIE RASKIN: Thanks for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will take a fast break and be proper again.

Stick with us. 

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to our annual CBS Information correspondents roundtable.

Becoming a member of us this 12 months, chief authorized correspondent Jan Crawford, nationwide safety correspondent David Martin, chief White Home correspondent Nancy Cordes, plus senior investigative correspondent Catherine Herridge, and chief nationwide affairs and justice correspondent Jeff Pegues.

Good morning to all of you.

(CROSSTALK)

DAVID MARTIN: Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It is so good to have you ever right here on the vacation.

David, I wish to begin with you, as a result of, at this level final 12 months, the world was watching Vladimir Putin construct up his army forces round Ukraine and questioning what he was going to do subsequent. After which he did the unthinkable.

What is going on on the bottom? How is the chilly affecting the fight now?

DAVID MARTIN: Proper now, the combating has died down, besides within the middle.

However the vital factor on the battlefield is whether or not, when the bottom freezes stable, Ukraine can take again sufficient territory or Russia lose sufficient territory, in order that either side conclude, that is the most effective we are able to do and begin negotiating.

Whether or not that occurs stays to be seen. You realize, it sounds counterintuitive, however the Ukrainians haven’t but demonstrated the power to conduct offensive operations. All these Russian retreats are instances wherein the Russians outrun their provide traces, bathroom down, pull again, after which the Ukrainians rush in.

Whether or not Ukraine can now, with American weapons, dislodge them over these winter months stays to be seen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, there is no signal that Vladimir Putin is fascinated by negotiating, in accordance with the CIA, in accordance with the State Division, at this level.

DAVID MARTIN: No signal that he is even given up on his unique warfare purpose, which, as inconceivable because it appears now, is to take all of Ukraine west of the Carpathian Mountains.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And it is exhausting to overstate what a large affect this invasion had on the world.

And, Nancy, it actually pushed to the entrance burner for President Biden rebuilding the European alliance and actually funding Ukraine to proceed placing up this combat. It has been $68 billion value of U.S. support so far. They’re asking Congress for an additional $35 billion. How assured is the White Home that they will maintain this type of assist?

NANCY CORDES: Properly, it’s extremely troublesome for them to make any headway with Kevin McCarthy proper now.

What he has stated is, Congress isn’t going to write down a clean test on Ukraine or anything, that they wish to see what the cash goes for use for. And there are some Republicans who’ve gone farther than that and have stated, we have got a whole lot of priorities on this planet. It is not simply Ukraine. They usually really feel that there is been greater than sufficient cash that has gone in direction of Ukraine already.

DAVID MARTIN: And that is what Putin is relying on, that donor fatigue and partisan politics undermine this consensus of supporting Ukraine with, because the phrases go, no matter it takes for so long as it takes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Which is what President Biden has vowed.

Jan, the sudden can actually disrupt all political plans. You accurately predicted that Roe vs. Wade could be overturned in 2022. And you probably did that on this panel. It was nonetheless a shock for the nation, although.

JAN CRAWFORD: Proper.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, what’s forward for the court docket in 2023? What do it is advisable to warn us about, by way of affect?

JAN CRAWFORD: Properly, I believe that, you recognize, final time period, we received a reasonably clear image of what the Supreme Court docket is: six justices, largely six conservative justices prepared to have a look at all swathes of the regulation, together with abortion rights, gun rights, faith.

We noticed them in fact, overturn Roe vs. Wade, develop gun rights, develop non secular expression. And, usually, once you cowl the court docket, they will have an enormous time period, after which they sort of have a quiet time period. However that is not the case with the Supreme Court docket this 12 months. They have a number of instances that stand to be very controversial, together with affirmative motion.

I count on— and I assume I can simply say my prediction now. I imply, I count on this court docket to overturn using affirmative motion in faculty admissions. That, I believe, could have a big affect on the political discourse that we noticed final 12 months with ladies’s rights. There is a case that homosexual rights teams are very on this 12 months. That one, I believe, is a harder name for the court docket.

However you are seeing a court docket that’s set on a solidly conservative path. How is that affecting the political course of? That is the court docket we’ve. It is not going to alter for years. And the way does that have an effect on the political course of? Meaning, if you need one thing completed, and want to impact change, and also you’re liberal, the Supreme Court docket isn’t going to be your finest outlet. You are going to look to the political course of.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You must legislate.

JAN CRAWFORD: You are going to must look to your state legislatures. You are going to must look to Congress.

And that, I believe, is the message of this court docket. They’re withdrawing from these social points and saying, go take it up together with your legislatures.

NANCY CORDES: Scholar mortgage forgiveness hanging within the steadiness as nicely.

JAN CRAWFORD: In February, they only added that case. That, I believe, is a tough case, and one which this Court docket might agree with a number of the decrease courts and say that the White Home went too far.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Twenty-six million Individuals have been kind of promised forgiveness by the Biden administration.

JAN CRAWFORD: The query is, does he have the authority to do this?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Precisely.

JAN CRAWFORD: And guarantees may be empty if they are not grounded in correct authority.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is there a value politically to creating a promise you possibly can’t ship on?

NANCY CORDES: Certain.

I imply that is one thing that was cheered by the left, had been pushed by— actually by progressives for a very long time. Republicans have been outraged. They stated he did not have the authority.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Jeff and Catherine, I wish to get to you each, as a result of it is a very busy beat, the Justice beat, and I believe it will get busier.

Jeff, what are you able to inform us concerning the timeline for the twin investigations being carried out by the particular counsel?

JEFF PEGUES: Jack Smith, the particular counsel, he is been sending out a flurry of subpoenas throughout the nation related to this faux electors scheme, this scheme to overturn the election outcomes.

And so he is been shifting pretty shortly, would not you say? And he is— clearly, he has a plan by way of how he desires to prosecute this case. The place it finally ends up, we do not know but. However he is protecting some floor the Division of Justice previous to his arrival hasn’t lined. And they also’re shifting fairly swiftly in that case.

We should always most likely take our holidays quickly…

(LAUGHTER)

JEFF PEGUES: … as a result of I really feel like, after the brand new 12 months, we’ll have to begin working even quicker.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Does it run proper into the 2024 presidential race?

JEFF PEGUES: I do not suppose so. Do you?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: I believe it wraps up earlier than then.

Former senior Justice Division officers I’ve been chatting with, after they have a look at this broad array of investigations, they consider that, if legal costs are introduced, they see the Mar-a-Lago case as one of many extra possible choices, as a result of it is a extra discrete set of information that is simpler to wrangle, for lack of a greater authorized time period.

January 6 is a tougher case, they are saying, as a result of so most of the actions have been taken whereas he was the highest government inside the U.S. authorities. So, there are all these questions of privilege.

My query is, if there’s a Mar-a-Lago prosecution, how does that go together with the general public sentiment? I imply, it is— it is a information case, proper? And is that going to have the identical affect as a January 6 prosecution, particularly once you’re seeing people who find themselves multiyear jail sentences who say they went to Capitol Hill if not however for the course of that president?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

Jan, as lawyer do you wish to weigh in?

(LAUGHTER)

JAN CRAWFORD: I imply, I believe that evaluation is strictly proper, and in addition how the— it’d land with the general public. So, I— kudos, Catherine.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Properly, I really feel very…

JAN CRAWFORD: Sure.

(LAUGHTER)

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Thanks.

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we can’t even get into the political a part of it, however you rightly level out that that is additionally received to be an element right here.

I do wish to go to the opposite case that I do know you’ve got been monitoring, Catherine, and that’s the one earlier than the U.S. lawyer in Delaware relating to the president’s son Hunter Biden.

This case has been below means since 2018.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When will it wrap up?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Boy, I assume I’d begin by saying that that is simply been the massive looming query for a number of months now. We see upticks in exercise. We expect there’s going to be motion on that case, after which it kind of recedes into the background once more.

My query is, once you have a look at the massive image of international cash right here — and we see this with Republicans and Democrats — what was all of it about on the finish of the day? Was it about attempting to complement a household by affect or entry? If — if that isn’t the case right here, because the White Home says, then it ought to be put to relaxation.

That is the massive query. What is going to the U.S. lawyer in Delaware do? Now {that a} particular counsel was appointed within the Trump investigation…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: … I believe there’s typically a sense that there is extra stress for the appointment of a particular counsel or some sort of adjudication of the case. Will there be an indictment or no indictment?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, and, Nancy, the White Home would level out that the U.S. lawyer in Delaware was a Trump appointee…

NANCY CORDES: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … and that it’s going to finally, although, nonetheless go to Lawyer Normal Merrick Garland.

NANCY CORDES: Mm-hmm.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How is that this factoring in in any respect to the considering on the White Home? As we all know, the president is making a choice about whether or not to run for reelection. He is speaking about it over the vacations, as he stated.

You may’t say that his personal son and what occurs subsequent is not a part of some dialog right here.

NANCY CORDES: Certain, though he knew that his son could be a probable goal, even earlier than he ran the primary time. So you could possibly argue that that was kind of baked into the equation.

I believe they’re making ready not only for that, but in addition for the probability that congressional Republicans are going to begin investigating that laptop computer and each motion…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, that is a certainty, is not it?

NANCY CORDES: … that Hunter— that Hunter Biden has ever completed as soon as they take management.

And the White Home is beefing up their Counsel’s Workplace for that very purpose. And their place proper now could be, after they suppose that the investigation is respectable, they will cooperate. They clearly do not consider that the Hunter Biden investigation on Capitol Hill is respectable. However, you recognize, they are going to have to answer it indirectly when it occurs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: I believe one of many simply kind of wild playing cards right here, and it is a large if, but when there’s an indictment of Hunter Biden, that, I’d argue, would frustrate the Republican Home investigations, as a result of it will put him and his authorized group ready to say, hear, we’re dealing with a legal indictment. We’re not likely ready to cooperate with Congress, as a result of it creates extra authorized publicity.

So, to me, that is at all times kind of behind my thoughts, as a result of it brings a kind of certainty to the scenario, a kind of decision, in some respects.

JEFF PEGUES: I’m wondering if there’s going to be some kind of plea deal, as a result of I simply do not— the folks I’ve talked to on this case, they— they’re kind of inquisitive about whether or not, on the finish of the day, that is going to be one thing that the Biden household even desires to go away: Let’s conform to a plea deal and we— and transfer on.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll transfer on and take a brief break.

We will likely be proper again.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you cannot watch the total Face the Nation, you possibly can set your DVR, or we’re obtainable on demand.

Plus, you possibly can watch us by our CBS or Paramount+ app. And we’re replayed on our CBS Information Streaming Community all through the day Sundays.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will likely be proper again with much more Face the Nation.

Stick with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re again with our CBS Information year-end roundtable.

And I’ll begin with you, Jeff. Is— drug points, fentanyl, crime, it is a continued story since 2020. When can we see enchancment in a few of these points?

JEFF PEGUES: It is going to be some time.

It’s flooding the nation, regardless of the place you go. I’ve been out to Colorado, I’ve talked to households there who’ve misplaced family members. It is nearly as if the American public does not get how lethal and potent fentanyl, this artificial drug — they make it in a lab. They ship it in. It is exhausting to catch coming throughout the border.

And it is seeping into each neighborhood on this nation, regardless of earnings, regardless of the place you reside. It is in your neighborhood.

JAN CRAWFORD: And other people do not even know. They do not even know typically that they are taking it.

JEFF PEGUES: They do not know that they are taking it.

JAN CRAWFORD: They suppose they’re taking some sort of generic drug or one thing they received off TikTok or Adderall, and also you’re seeing children dying.

I imply, it is now on the main reason for demise in folks 18 to 45.

JEFF PEGUES: Sure, greater than weapons, greater than automotive accidents.

I imply, the statistics are unimaginable. And I believe if we weren’t speaking about Trump and all these different points, the Division of Justice, regulation enforcement, they want to concentrate on fentanyl. That is actually all they wish to discuss nowadays, is fentanyl, as a result of it is having such a pervasively lethal impact.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And, Catherine, on that, but in addition gun violence on simply main metropolis crime.

When is there going to be an enchancment? It is turn into such a potent political problem.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: I believe it was very nicely stated by Jeff.

The factor that I really feel like I maintain coming again to on the finish of this 12 months is that this query of radicalization and home violent extremism. You realize, 20 years in the past, when 9/11 occurred, there was this concept that you just needed to have this in-person sort of mentoring relationship to get somebody to cross a threshold to violence.

What we see now could be that this era that is grown up with the know-how can cross that threshold in a digital world. So what we’re seeing now with home violent extremism on each extremes is that this similar course of that we noticed with al Qaeda and ISIS after 9/11, however now it is right here at house, and fueling these divisions and — and the violence.

And I take into consideration issues that I’ve heard up to now from intelligence officers who say it is so— it is so troublesome to defeat the USA from the skin, however the enemy has to defeat us from inside and these divisions.

David Martin, what was essentially the most undercovered story of 2022?

DAVID MARTIN: Over 2022, the Chinese language air drive turned increasingly more aggressive about buzzing U.S., British and Australian patrol planes that have been flying across the periphery of China.

And these jet fighters would pull up on the wing of the a lot slower patrol airplane inside tens of toes, after which reduce in entrance pop flares, and dump chaff, that are these aluminum strips that are purported to confuse radar, however can even get sucked into an plane engine.

There’s simply little or no margin for error there. And it goes nearly utterly unreported as a result of the Pentagon is sitting on all of the videotapes of those intercepts. They do not wish to launch them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’ve a sense you are asking for these tapes.

(LAUGHTER)

DAVID MARTIN: Nagging could be the proper phrase.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Nagging for them.

DAVID MARTIN: Sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However that danger of miscalculation is so— is so excessive.

One in all my undercovered is also China. And that’s simply how troublesome it will be for the U.S. to reverse and even reduce the quantity of linkage there’s technologically and financially with China.

DAVID MARTIN: Sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And it will turn into increasingly more of a problem as pressure grows. The opposite factor I’d say is North Korea, Kim Jong-un’s rising nuclear capabilities.

DAVID MARTIN: Properly, I believe it is protected to say that the American coverage of negotiating away Kim Jong-un’s nuclear program has reached a lifeless finish.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.

DAVID MARTIN: And we’re again to deterrence, threatening him that, if he ever makes use of a nuclear weapon, it will not be the tip of his regime.

JAN CRAWFORD: There hasn’t been a year-end roundtable with out David scaring us all.

(LAUGHTER)

DAVID MARTIN: Simply to get that good feeling again.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Jan, what’s most undercovered however ought to have been lined?

JAN CRAWFORD: You realize, I believe, as we emerge from the pandemic, we’ve actually did not ship any sort of account of what went mistaken with our COVID insurance policies, the lockdowns, the mandates, the college closures.

What distinction did any of these insurance policies make? I imply, we all know the prices. We all know the price of these insurance policies, the training loss, the psychological well being disaster, the destruction of our cities which can be nonetheless attempting to recuperate, the homelessness, the dependancy, large prices from these insurance policies.

However what we’ve not completed is any sort of after-review have a look at what an affect that that they had. We received lots mistaken. And we have to have a look at what it was and — and acknowledge that it was mistaken. And the reason being, folks’s belief in public well being is crumbling. That could be a downside, as a result of if we’ve one other public well being disaster, which we’ll, if the general public does not consider in our public well being policymakers, that’s unhealthy for America.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Catherine, I’ll go to you on that, as a result of I believe you’ve an analogous concept by way of what’s undercovered.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Sure.

I believe there are two parts for me with COVID. One is COVID origins. You simply have to have a look at the information, 6.5 million COVID deaths, of that, one million on this nation and greater than 600 million infections. And we nonetheless do not know whether or not it was this zoonotic hyperlink, so it spilled over from nature, or whether or not there is a hyperlink to the lab in Wuhan.

I believe most vital…

MARGARET BRENNAN: And an accident there.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Right. Proper.

So, most vital to me, although — and I communicate as somebody, for full transparency, who has a toddler who wants particular training. He had a transplant. He was developmentally delayed. The insurance policies for particular training youngsters with COVID have simply been crushing.

You have a look at the degrees of literacy, math, and also you have a look at center faculty, highschool, and so they slid again to elementary faculty. And our household is lucky to have that potential to make use of assets to get our son to a full-time particular training faculty now, however so most of the youngsters that he was within the public system with haven’t got these assets.

And I actually consider youngsters are resilient. However I’ve come out of those two years questioning whether or not these youngsters have the entry to the instruments that their households additionally want to assist bridge that hole. And I actually query the course it is set them on sooner or later.

I did some analysis, and once you have a look at charges of incarceration, there are extremely excessive charges of adults who’ve studying disabilities or had particular training wants. So, I believe understanding what occurred to these youngsters and the way we are able to do extra to assist them to try to shut that hole is one thing that is been extraordinarily underreported. And I agree with Jan.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And none of these issues are on the to do-list by way of congressional investigations.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: They don’t seem to be.

MARGARET BRENNAN: No.

JAN CRAWFORD: And if we do not be taught from the errors of our policymakers, then we’ll repeat them. And that erodes public confidence in our public well being system.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The CDC is saying it is doing self-analysis, however folks like Dr. Gottlieb would say they want Congress telling them what…

JAN CRAWFORD: And we should be, because the media…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.

JAN CRAWFORD: … asking these exhausting questions.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Jeff, after which Nancy, what do you suppose are essentially the most underreported?

JEFF PEGUES: Folks really feel unsafe of their neighborhoods.

And the Police Govt Analysis Discussion board, which is a policing think-tank led by a man named Chuck Wexler, it stated that police post-George Floyd, the coaching is similar. You may recall that, post-George Floyd, there have been lots of people who stated — who stated, you recognize, we’ve to coach police higher.

What hasn’t modified, in accordance with this analysis, is that police coaching continues to be completed on a budget and shortly. You realize, these younger aspiring law enforcement officials are approaching to the drive. They’re dealing with extra challenges on the streets than ever earlier than. And but the coaching, in accordance with this Police Govt Analysis Discussion board, is missing.

I believe that is an vital story, particularly given what law enforcement officials are dealing with everyday on the streets, and what the neighborhood wants proper now amid these spikes in crime.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Nancy, your underreported?

NANCY CORDES: Properly, I believe we have completed a tremendous job protecting the warfare in Ukraine itself, however I believe one of many issues that is been very undercovered is likely one of the tragic after-effects of that ongoing warfare, which is rising meals insecurities, particularly in Africa, the place they’re dealing with probably the worst meals disaster in recorded historical past.

You realize, a part of it has to do with the warfare in Ukraine and the discount in grain and different crops coming from Ukraine and Russia. However it additionally has to do with the pandemic and the truth that a whole lot of support dried up, as a result of nations needed to redirect that support, significantly European nations that at the moment are coping with an vitality disaster on account of the warfare in Ukraine, after which local weather change, which has had an extremely destabilizing impact, significantly in Africa.

They’ve missed 4 consecutive wet seasons there. You’ve got received 500,000 children who’re dealing with the prospect of famine in Somalia alone. This month, the president dedicated one other $2.5 billion to assist with the issue in Africa on the Africa Leaders Summit right here in Washington, D.C.

However they’re in search of far more than that, a whole lot of assist from around the globe. And it is simply not clear proper now whether or not they are going to get it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, that really transitions into the place I used to be going to go for predictions for 2023.

So I’ll take some extent of non-public privilege, as a result of my prediction has to do with Africa and the 54 nations on that continent. The White Home goes to have to decide on which of them it will get extra concerned with. And a few of them are run by people who have very troublesome human rights information.

However the White Home goes to must make some choices right here due to the inexperienced revolution, due to the reliance on particular earths and substances for the electrical autos and different different energies.

Within the Democratic Republic of the Congo, they’ve 70 % of the important gadgets like cobalt and lithium required for electrical automobile batteries. So it is a provide chain managed by China, popping out of nations just like the DRC. And the administration goes to must make some troublesome human rights selections who they wish to do enterprise with in the middle of going inexperienced.

So, I’ll watch that.

However we’ll take a break and speak to you about your predictions for 2023 in only a second. Stick with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: David, what’s your 2023 prediction?

DAVID MARTIN: So, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Normal Mark Milley, retires in 2023. I predict he will likely be changed by the chief of employees of the Air Drive, Normal C.Q. Brown, making him the second African American, after the late Colin Powell, to turn into the best rating army officer.

And the present commander of Transportation Command, Normal Jacqueline Van Ovost, will turn into the subsequent chief of employees of the Air Drive, making her the primary girl to ever sit on the Joint Chiefs of Workers. You may grade that later.

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: David, I often take what you say to the financial institution.

DAVID MARTIN: Simply do it on a curve.

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

Jan?

JAN CRAWFORD: I do not suppose we’ve any retirements from the Supreme Court docket. That’s not large information, proper? Nobody thinks they are going to retire.

However I see this Supreme Court docket staying intact not solely by the tip of President Biden’s first time period, however, if he have been to be reelected, I don’t suppose he will get one other Supreme Court docket nomination. This court docket is that this court docket.

Whether or not will probably be the court docket that’s the longest in historical past of 9 justices to go with no change of membership, I do not know. That was 11 years. That was after Justice Breyer joined the court docket in 1994. However will probably be this court docket for a while, so folks can get used to some totally different rulings.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Catherine?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: I believe many Individuals overlook that there is nonetheless been no decision to the 9/11 army prosecution at Guantanamo Bay. And we’re getting into a second 12 months of negotiations between the army prosecutors and the attorneys for the defendants.

I believe this may very well be the 12 months the place there are plea offers within the 9/11 case for some or all the males. So, let’s simply let that sink in. I believe it will imply the demise penalty is off the desk, and, in return, there are ensures that the lads could have sure medical care, and that they are going to dwell out their sentences on the Guantanamo Bay prisons.

That implies that this objective of closing the prisons, which has been held by a few administrations has— has run its course. It is not going to occur.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Jeff?

JEFF PEGUES: Fani Willis, do you acknowledge that identify?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Georgia.

JEFF PEGUES: You probably did.

Georgia, Fulton County, the one kind of Trump-related investigation that actually flies below the radar. She’s a tricky prosecutor. She’s been subpoenaing everyone related to this case, highly effective folks in Washington.

However my concept is that she does not care concerning the energy in Washington. She is aware of she has energy in Georgia. And I believe, my prediction is that she is going to carry the primary costs associated to President Trump. Bear in mind, that was the decision the place he stated, hey, Brad…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Discover the votes.

JEFF PEGUES: … 11,780.

It is proof on tape. Anyone else who stated one thing like that may be in large bother.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Nancy?

NANCY CORDES: I predict that someday within the first few months of 2023, President Biden will announce his bid for reelection. To me, it is not a lot of a thriller. That is what he has needed to do his complete grownup life for the final 50 years is to be president of the USA. He feels good about what he is completed. in his first two years.

And I believe it will take one thing very critical to trigger him to alter his thoughts about working once more.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to go to excellent news from 2022.

I’ll begin. David, NATO isn’t brain-dead. And the French president, Emmanuel Macron, as soon as known as it that.

DAVID MARTIN: Certain.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And the lesson from 2022 was that it is not. That is mine.

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: That was my excellent news, excellent news for the West.

(CROSSTALK)

DAVID MARTIN: Excellent news for us, unhealthy information for Putin.

My excellent news is rather more restricted, retired Military Main John Duffy, who acquired a protracted overdue Medal of Honor, for main — and being the one American adviser main a South Vietnamese battalion towards a whole North Vietnamese division. He went in with 471 troops. He got here out with 37.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.

DAVID MARTIN: He did 4 fight excursions in Vietnam. So he is clearly a outstanding warrior.

However he additionally seems to be a outstanding poet. And he wrote a poem about that battle which is the only finest account of fight I— I’ve ever learn. So, I do know we do not do poetry readings on “Face the Nation.”

(LAUGHTER)

DAVID MARTIN: However simply— simply let me offer you a pair traces.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

DAVID MARTIN: “The battle raged forwards and backwards, the dying, wounded moaning softly. Despair and harm are frequent. Is that this glory?”

We’re fortunate to have individuals who can combat like that and write like that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly stated, David.

Jan?

JAN CRAWFORD: You realize, I — that is exhausting to comply with that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I do know. It’s.

JAN CRAWFORD: However I’ll comply with it with a narrative of perseverance, inspiration, braveness, and believing in your self.

And these are tales that we see on this planet of sports activities. I believe sports activities performs a precious function in sort of bringing us collectively and emphasizing our frequent bonds. And among the best tales in 2022 is Hansel Emmanuel, who’s a younger man who misplaced an arm and an accident when he was a toddler, had it amputated, however by no means gave up on his dream of being a basketball star.

He moved to the U.S. from the Dominican Republic, led his Florida highschool to the state championship sport, received a school scholarship to play basketball in faculty, and, earlier this month, scored his first factors in a school basketball sport with one among his signature, thunderous dunks along with his one remaining arm.

And it’s to me a reminder that, in case you consider in your self, maintain working, by no means hand over, that you are able to do nice issues.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is additionally an unimaginable story, Jan. Thanks.

Your excellent news, Catherine?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE: Properly, to kind of comply with up on what David stated, I’ve actually had the respect of assembly a whole lot of service members this 12 months who work within the shadows and do very high-risk work, with no expectation of public acknowledgement, no expectation of medals, and even promotion.

And I believe that they only embody what’s so nice about this nation. Now we have a phrase in our home, which is that these folks actually come from a special shelf of the library than the remainder of us. And thank goodness for that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Jeff?

JEFF PEGUES: It is so exhausting on my beat to discover a excellent news story generally.

However, all proper, so I went to Ohio. I used to be taken to a cigar store by — it is Mason, Ohio, by the way in which — by this businessman, pal of mine occurs to be African American. So I went, ready for my flight. We sat down exterior. And these two guys — we have been wearing fits. They have been wearing overalls.

They usually walked by and stated: “Hey, the way you doing?”

And I stated, “Wow, oh, OK,” as a result of I am not used to, in D.C., a stranger simply sort of — it was like, whoa.

I requested my pal: “What was that?”

And there have been two farmers. And he stated: “That is the way in which it’s round right here. It does not matter who you’re, the place you are from. We simply — they will cease and sit.”

They usually did cease and sit. We have been speaking about politics. We have been speaking concerning the state of the nation. And the way nice this nation is. Then it turned, as a result of he began about — speaking about COVID and the way he misplaced his spouse.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Oh.

JEFF PEGUES: It was actually unimaginable the dialog that these strangers from totally different worlds had. And, as I used to be requested this query, what sort of optimistic are you able to carry to the desk, to me, that’s America, the place you’ve all these folks with totally different level of views come collectively, not combating, smoking cigars, chatting on a good looking day, and getting up strolling away and saying: Hey, take care. Good speaking to you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: A human connection.

Nancy?

NANCY CORDES: My excellent news is expounded. And it is not likely on my beat both, however I say this extra as a mother.

I believe that this was the 12 months that life received again to regular or near it. You realize, right now final 12 months, Omicron was simply rising. In January of 2022, there have been one million instances of COVID daily. Now we’re right down to about 150,000 a day, which is not nice, nevertheless it’s higher.

And, you recognize, we’re in a position to collect inside. We’re in a position to journey rather more simply. You realize, it is not precisely life as we knew it earlier than the pandemic, nevertheless it feels extra regular for us and, most significantly, for our children. So, that is my excellent news.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks all for becoming a member of us and sharing your insights. And due to all of you.

We will likely be proper again with much more Face the Nation, so stick with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: One of many many surprises we have been witness to right here in Washington in 2022, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s whirlwind journey to the nation’s capital final week.

His story will certainly proceed into the brand new 12 months.

MARGARET BRENNAN (voice-over): This lightning-fast Washington journey, his first international go to since Russia’s full-scale invasion, it was much less perilous than the entrance traces, however no much less vital. The U.S. has given the lion’s share of Western army assist. However as that price ticket now nears $100 billion, plenty of lawmakers have voiced skepticism.

Zelenskyy shared his gratitude.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY (Ukrainian President): I thank each American household which cherishes the heat of its house and needs the identical heat to different folks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There was no vacation cease-fire. Ukrainians saved up their fierce resistance, celebrating in subway shelters, adorning makeshift Christmas bushes and discovering progressive methods to mild them amid a near-nationwide blackout.

(MAYOR VITALI KLITSCHKO SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Kyiv’s mayor stated lighting the tallest menorah in Europe reveals that mild at all times wins, not would possibly.

That resilience has impressed the world and led many Individuals to see themselves within the civilians caught within the crossfire of a battle they didn’t select. Whether or not that continues is as much as us.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us at the moment. Thanks all for watching.

All of us right here at Face the Nation wish to want you and your loved ones a really comfortable holidays.

Till subsequent week, I am Margaret Brennan.

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